KDE Themes - Installation - Too complex.

Agreed?

Then please vote for this bug.



Thanks. :-)
--
Scott
www.angrykeyboarder.com
© 2006 „¢ & Elmer Fudd. All Wights Wesewved

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Scott wrote:

Agreed?

Then please vote for this bug.



Thanks. :-)

Since the maintainer closed the bug as WNTFIX, your best bet is to take a
different tack. Two things suggest themselves to me (apart from writing the
code yourself, of course):

1. KDE 3.5 is feature frozen, so any proposed feature would have to wait
till KDE 4. Therefore, you could start investigation and discussion into
how theme installation could be done in KDE 4: Look at the technical issues
with themes, how they're dealt with by other S's/DE's (MS, Gnome, etc)
and suggest some ways to do the same in KDE 4. This would be an appropriate
discussion for the kde-devel mailing list. Bear in mind that it's too early
to be writing code for KDE 4, but planning structure and so on is something
that can be done now.

2. Improve the documentation on kde-look. I haven't looked into it myself,
but I imagine there's a lot that could be done on this front. Lots of
people turn up in #kde on IRC not knowing how to install the theme they
just downloaded from there. While I mention it, there's also some
uncertainty among users about the difference between themes, styles,
windecos, etc etc. I guess you should talk to the kde-look admins if you
want to take this approach.

Regards,
Philip
--
KDE Documentation Team: http://i18n.kde.org/doc
KDE Documentation : http://docs.kde.org


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Account management:
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Scott wrote:

Agreed?

Then please vote for this bug.



Thanks. :-)

Since the maintainer closed the bug as WNTFIX, your best bet is to take a
different tack. Two things suggest themselves to me (apart from writing the
code yourself, of course):

1. KDE 3.5 is feature frozen, so any proposed feature would have to wait
till KDE 4. Therefore, you could start investigation and discussion into
how theme installation could be done in KDE 4: Look at the technical issues
with themes, how they're dealt with by other S's/DE's (MS, Gnome, etc)
and suggest some ways to do the same in KDE 4. This would be an appropriate
discussion for the kde-devel mailing list. Bear in mind that it's too early
to be writing code for KDE 4, but planning structure and so on is something
that can be done now.

2. Improve the documentation on kde-look. I haven't looked into it myself,
but I imagine there's a lot that could be done on this front. Lots of
people turn up in #kde on IRC not knowing how to install the theme they
just downloaded from there. While I mention it, there's also some
uncertainty among users about the difference between themes, styles,
windecos, etc etc. I guess you should talk to the kde-look admins if you
want to take this approach.

Regards,
Philip
--
KDE Documentation Team: http://i18n.kde.org/doc
KDE Documentation : http://docs.kde.org


This message is from the kde mailing list.
Account management:
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Wednesday 11 January 2006 01:46, Philip Rodrigues wrote:
Scott wrote:
Agreed?
>
Then please vote for this bug.
>

>
Thanks. :-)
>
Since the maintainer closed the bug as WNTFIX, your best bet is to take a
different tack. Two things suggest themselves to me (apart from writing the
code yourself, of course):
>
1. KDE 3.5 is feature frozen, so any proposed feature would have to wait
till KDE 4. Therefore, you could start investigation and discussion into
how theme installation could be done in KDE 4: Look at the technical issues
with themes, how they're dealt with by other S's/DE's (MS, Gnome, etc)
and suggest some ways to do the same in KDE 4. This would be an appropriate
discussion for the kde-devel mailing list.

Are non-developlers "allowed" on the kde-devel mailing list?

Bear in mind that it's too early
to be writing code for KDE 4, but planning structure and so on is something
that can be done now.

In other words, my timing stunk.

>
2. Improve the documentation on kde-look. I haven't looked into it myself,
but I imagine there's a lot that could be done on this front.

This site's existance is very unfortunate. It's the "unofficial-offical" site
for KDE themes. In other words, "" documentation refers to it and
refers users there, but it's still not part of KDE. That right there is a
problem. But that's for another discussion.

Meanwhile the guy who runs the site is very uninterested in changes (unless
it's his idea). And it's really up to ordinery folk like you and me (or me
anyway) to have the brains to properly document the themes we upload.

However, the biggest problem is that a) most are not packaged at all, it's
pure source code and b) packaged or not, they are often out of date and
incompatible with current Linux distributions.


Lots of
people turn up in #kde on IRC not knowing how to install the theme they
just downloaded from there.

And KDE developers aren't aware of this?

While I mention it, there's also some
uncertainty among users about the difference between themes, styles,
windecos, etc etc. I guess you should talk to the kde-look admins if you
want to take this approach.

I have talked to the admin. He's useless. He says "I put up the site - the
community does everything else".

--
Scott
www.angrykeyboarder.com
© 2006 „¢ & Elmer Fudd. All Wights Wesewved

This message is from the kde mailing list.
Account management:
Archives: http://lists.kde.org/.
More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.

Wednesday 11 January 2006 01:46, Philip Rodrigues wrote:
Scott wrote:
Agreed?
>
Then please vote for this bug.
>

>
Thanks. :-)
>
Since the maintainer closed the bug as WNTFIX, your best bet is to take a
different tack. Two things suggest themselves to me (apart from writing the
code yourself, of course):
>
1. KDE 3.5 is feature frozen, so any proposed feature would have to wait
till KDE 4. Therefore, you could start investigation and discussion into
how theme installation could be done in KDE 4: Look at the technical issues
with themes, how they're dealt with by other S's/DE's (MS, Gnome, etc)
and suggest some ways to do the same in KDE 4. This would be an appropriate
discussion for the kde-devel mailing list.

Are non-developlers "allowed" on the kde-devel mailing list?

Bear in mind that it's too early
to be writing code for KDE 4, but planning structure and so on is something
that can be done now.

In other words, my timing stunk.

>
2. Improve the documentation on kde-look. I haven't looked into it myself,
but I imagine there's a lot that could be done on this front.

This site's existance is very unfortunate. It's the "unofficial-offical" site
for KDE themes. In other words, "" documentation refers to it and
refers users there, but it's still not part of KDE. That right there is a
problem. But that's for another discussion.

Meanwhile the guy who runs the site is very uninterested in changes (unless
it's his idea). And it's really up to ordinery folk like you and me (or me
anyway) to have the brains to properly document the themes we upload.

However, the biggest problem is that a) most are not packaged at all, it's
pure source code and b) packaged or not, they are often out of date and
incompatible with current Linux distributions.


Lots of
people turn up in #kde on IRC not knowing how to install the theme they
just downloaded from there.

And KDE developers aren't aware of this?

While I mention it, there's also some
uncertainty among users about the difference between themes, styles,
windecos, etc etc. I guess you should talk to the kde-look admins if you
want to take this approach.

I have talked to the admin. He's useless. He says "I put up the site - the
community does everything else".

--
Scott
www.angrykeyboarder.com
© 2006 „¢ & Elmer Fudd. All Wights Wesewved

This message is from the kde-linux mailing list.
Account management:
Archives: http://lists.kde.org/.
More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.

Wednesday 11 January 2006 01:46, Philip Rodrigues wrote:
Scott wrote:
Agreed?
>
Then please vote for this bug.
>

>
Thanks. :-)
>
Since the maintainer closed the bug as WNTFIX, your best bet is to take a
different tack. Two things suggest themselves to me (apart from writing the
code yourself, of course):
>
1. KDE 3.5 is feature frozen, so any proposed feature would have to wait
till KDE 4. Therefore, you could start investigation and discussion into
how theme installation could be done in KDE 4: Look at the technical issues
with themes, how they're dealt with by other S's/DE's (MS, Gnome, etc)
and suggest some ways to do the same in KDE 4. This would be an appropriate
discussion for the kde-devel mailing list.

Are non-developlers "allowed" on the kde-devel mailing list?

Bear in mind that it's too early
to be writing code for KDE 4, but planning structure and so on is something
that can be done now.

In other words, my timing stunk.

>
2. Improve the documentation on kde-look. I haven't looked into it myself,
but I imagine there's a lot that could be done on this front.

This site's existance is very unfortunate. It's the "unofficial-offical" site
for KDE themes. In other words, "" documentation refers to it and
refers users there, but it's still not part of KDE. That right there is a
problem. But that's for another discussion.

Meanwhile the guy who runs the site is very uninterested in changes (unless
it's his idea). And it's really up to ordinery folk like you and me (or me
anyway) to have the brains to properly document the themes we upload.

However, the biggest problem is that a) most are not packaged at all, it's
pure source code and b) packaged or not, they are often out of date and
incompatible with current Linux distributions.


Lots of
people turn up in #kde on IRC not knowing how to install the theme they
just downloaded from there.

And KDE developers aren't aware of this?

While I mention it, there's also some
uncertainty among users about the difference between themes, styles,
windecos, etc etc. I guess you should talk to the kde-look admins if you
want to take this approach.

I have talked to the admin. He's useless. He says "I put up the site - the
community does everything else".

--
Scott
www.angrykeyboarder.com
© 2006 „¢ & Elmer Fudd. All Wights Wesewved

This message is from the kde mailing list.
Account management:
Archives: http://lists.kde.org/.
More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.

>1. KDE 3.5 is feature frozen, so any proposed feature would have to wait
>till KDE 4. Therefore, you could start investigation and discussion into
>how theme installation could be done in KDE 4: Look at the technical
>issues with themes, how they're dealt with by other S's/DE's (MS,
>Gnome, etc) and suggest some ways to do the same in KDE 4. This would be
>an appropriate discussion for the kde-devel mailing list.

Are non-developlers "allowed" on the kde-devel mailing list?

Sure, provided your message is relevant to discussion of KDE development.
Another list which I should have thought of is kde-artists - search the
archives there, perhaps they've already discussed the issue, or can provide
some pointers for you.

>Bear in mind that it's too early
>to be writing code for KDE 4, but planning structure and so on is
>something that can be done now.

In other words, my timing stunk.

Well, few specific decisions about KDE 4 features have been made at this
stage, so you get a chance to get in early.

>>
>2. Improve the documentation on kde-look. I haven't looked into it
>myself, but I imagine there's a lot that could be done on this front.

This site's existance is very unfortunate. It's the "unofficial-offical"
site
for KDE themes. In other words, "" documentation refers to it
and
refers users there, but it's still not part of KDE. That right there
is a
problem. But that's for another discussion.

Yes, another discussion :-).

Meanwhile the guy who runs the site is very uninterested in changes
(unless
it's his idea). And it's really up to ordinery folk like you and me (or
me anyway) to have the brains to properly document the themes we upload.

I cant answer for the kde-look admins, but in terms of documenting themes, I
don't see why kde-look should be responsible: every individual
theme/style/whatever may have different instructions, and the developer is
the person best placed to know what is required for installation, etc.

Anyway, that's somewhat immaterial - we could argue all day about what
someone else should or shouldn't do :-). Better to think about what you can
do to "scratch your itch". thing you could do would be to write a short
howto about installing themes, styles etc and make it publically available
somewhere. You could either submit it as an item on kde-look, or put it in
the KDE wiki (wiki.kde.org), or better, both. I imagine there's a lot of
information that's quite generic between themes, and could go into a howto.
course, individual themes could have slightly differing instructions,
but if there's a standard "theme howto", then a package author just needs
to provide a "diff" ("skip section 4 and instead run ./configure
" for example).

However, the biggest problem is that a) most are not packaged at all, it's
pure source code and b) packaged or not, they are often out of date and
incompatible with current Linux distributions.

I imagine that's a simple case of lack of manpower.

>Lots of
>people turn up in #kde on IRC not knowing how to install the theme they
>just downloaded from there.

And KDE developers aren't aware of this?

I say "a lot", but not quite enough to give me the simultaneous time and
inclination to do anything about it.

>While I mention it, there's also some
>uncertainty among users about the difference between themes, styles,
>windecos, etc etc. I guess you should talk to the kde-look admins if you
>want to take this approach.

I have talked to the admin. He's useless. He says "I put up the site -
the community does everything else".

See above. The main point is that in KDE, much as in any other open source
project, the person who does the work makes the decision, and since the
whole procedure is open, you have the power to make changes to improve
things where you find problems (scratching your itch).

Regards,
Philip
--
KDE Documentation Team: http://i18n.kde.org/doc
KDE Documentation : http://docs.kde.org


This message is from the kde mailing list.
Account management:
Archives: http://lists.kde.org/.
More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.

>1. KDE 3.5 is feature frozen, so any proposed feature would have to wait
>till KDE 4. Therefore, you could start investigation and discussion into
>how theme installation could be done in KDE 4: Look at the technical
>issues with themes, how they're dealt with by other S's/DE's (MS,
>Gnome, etc) and suggest some ways to do the same in KDE 4. This would be
>an appropriate discussion for the kde-devel mailing list.

Are non-developlers "allowed" on the kde-devel mailing list?

Sure, provided your message is relevant to discussion of KDE development.
Another list which I should have thought of is kde-artists - search the
archives there, perhaps they've already discussed the issue, or can provide
some pointers for you.

>Bear in mind that it's too early
>to be writing code for KDE 4, but planning structure and so on is
>something that can be done now.

In other words, my timing stunk.

Well, few specific decisions about KDE 4 features have been made at this
stage, so you get a chance to get in early.

>>
>2. Improve the documentation on kde-look. I haven't looked into it
>myself, but I imagine there's a lot that could be done on this front.

This site's existance is very unfortunate. It's the "unofficial-offical"
site
for KDE themes. In other words, "" documentation refers to it
and
refers users there, but it's still not part of KDE. That right there
is a
problem. But that's for another discussion.

Yes, another discussion :-).

Meanwhile the guy who runs the site is very uninterested in changes
(unless
it's his idea). And it's really up to ordinery folk like you and me (or
me anyway) to have the brains to properly document the themes we upload.

I cant answer for the kde-look admins, but in terms of documenting themes, I
don't see why kde-look should be responsible: every individual
theme/style/whatever may have different instructions, and the developer is
the person best placed to know what is required for installation, etc.

Anyway, that's somewhat immaterial - we could argue all day about what
someone else should or shouldn't do :-). Better to think about what you can
do to "scratch your itch". thing you could do would be to write a short
howto about installing themes, styles etc and make it publically available
somewhere. You could either submit it as an item on kde-look, or put it in
the KDE wiki (wiki.kde.org), or better, both. I imagine there's a lot of
information that's quite generic between themes, and could go into a howto.
course, individual themes could have slightly differing instructions,
but if there's a standard "theme howto", then a package author just needs
to provide a "diff" ("skip section 4 and instead run ./configure
" for example).

However, the biggest problem is that a) most are not packaged at all, it's
pure source code and b) packaged or not, they are often out of date and
incompatible with current Linux distributions.

I imagine that's a simple case of lack of manpower.

>Lots of
>people turn up in #kde on IRC not knowing how to install the theme they
>just downloaded from there.

And KDE developers aren't aware of this?

I say "a lot", but not quite enough to give me the simultaneous time and
inclination to do anything about it.

>While I mention it, there's also some
>uncertainty among users about the difference between themes, styles,
>windecos, etc etc. I guess you should talk to the kde-look admins if you
>want to take this approach.

I have talked to the admin. He's useless. He says "I put up the site -
the community does everything else".

See above. The main point is that in KDE, much as in any other open source
project, the person who does the work makes the decision, and since the
whole procedure is open, you have the power to make changes to improve
things where you find problems (scratching your itch).

Regards,
Philip
--
KDE Documentation Team: http://i18n.kde.org/doc
KDE Documentation : http://docs.kde.org


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Account management:
Archives: http://lists.kde.org/.
More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.

Wednesday 11 January 2006 14:22, Philip Rodrigues wrote:
<>
The main point is that in KDE, much as in any other open source
project, the person who does the work makes the decision, and since the
whole procedure is open, you have the power to make changes to improve
things where you find problems (scratching your itch).

Since when do we have "the power". The maintainer has all the power and this
isn't the first time I've seen a maintainer deny a perfectly valid bug.
that happens there is nothing we can do.

Documenting the problem on the Net only helps those with Net access and does
nothing towards closing/solving that bug.

--
Robert "roach" Spencer
Pietermaritzburg
South Africa

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Account management:
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Wednesday 11 January 2006 14:22, Philip Rodrigues wrote:
<>
The main point is that in KDE, much as in any other open source
project, the person who does the work makes the decision, and since the
whole procedure is open, you have the power to make changes to improve
things where you find problems (scratching your itch).

Since when do we have "the power". The maintainer has all the power and this
isn't the first time I've seen a maintainer deny a perfectly valid bug.
that happens there is nothing we can do.

Documenting the problem on the Net only helps those with Net access and does
nothing towards closing/solving that bug.

--
Robert "roach" Spencer
Pietermaritzburg
South Africa

This message is from the kde mailing list.
Account management:
Archives: http://lists.kde.org/.
More info: http://www.kde.org/faq.html.

1/11/06, roach <robert_spencer (AT) mighty (DOT) co.zawrote:
Wednesday 11 January 2006 14:22, Philip Rodrigues wrote:
<>
The main point is that in KDE, much as in any other open source
project, the person who does the work makes the decision, and since the
whole procedure is open, you have the power to make changes to improve
things where you find problems (scratching your itch).
>
Since when do we have "the power". The maintainer has all the power and this
isn't the first time I've seen a maintainer deny a perfectly valid bug.
that happens there is nothing we can do.

Nothing other than one of the following:
1) Actually fixing the bug yourself
2) Persuading someone else (maintainer or otherwise) to fix it for you, or
3) letting it go

You have to think about what's involved with #2. The maintainer(s), at
least if they're at all like me, don't appreciate too many complaints
about the volunteer work they do. Suggesting that they're not doing
enough work for you probably doesn't help your ultimate aim. They
don't owe you anything. Period. You may just have to buckle down and
just do #1. , get creative on #2. Maybe you have a personal friend
who could do it. Maybe he's willing to do some barter work. , just
accept #3. Sorry.

Documenting the problem on the Net only helps those with Net access

Just a guess here, but probably most people who want to update themes
for KDE are already on the net (am I missing something?). So, it might
actually a notable benefit to users. I know I'd be appreciative, and I
don't even bother with different themes. I know you will have helped
somebody.

and does
nothing towards closing/solving that bug.

Maybe it raises more awareness about the issue, but at the very least
you will have helped some users with an issue. Isn't that better?
Rewarding in its own right?

Jeff

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roach wrote:

Wednesday 11 January 2006 14:22, Philip Rodrigues wrote:
<>
>The main point is that in KDE, much as in any other open source
>project, the person who does the work makes the decision, and since the
>whole procedure is open, you have the power to make changes to improve
>things where you find problems (scratching your itch).

Since when do we have "the power". The maintainer has all the power and
this isn't the first time I've seen a maintainer deny a perfectly valid
bug. that happens there is nothing we can do.

If you take "the power" to mean "the power to make the developer do whatever
you want", then of course, you don't have the power. If you take it to mean
"the power to get involved and help improve things", we're nearer the
truth.

Documenting the problem on the Net only helps those with Net access and
does nothing towards closing/solving that bug.

Well, in this particular instance, only those with Net access can get new
themes, so that's moot.

But perhaps I should have been more clear that the two solutions I suggested
in my original post are orthogonal: one is a way to solve the problem
(acknowledged by the developer) for the next version of KDE, whereas the
other is a workaround to mitigate the problem until then.

Regards,
Philip
--
KDE Documentation Team: http://i18n.kde.org/doc
KDE Documentation : http://docs.kde.org


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roach wrote:

Wednesday 11 January 2006 14:22, Philip Rodrigues wrote:
<>
>The main point is that in KDE, much as in any other open source
>project, the person who does the work makes the decision, and since the
>whole procedure is open, you have the power to make changes to improve
>things where you find problems (scratching your itch).

Since when do we have "the power". The maintainer has all the power and
this isn't the first time I've seen a maintainer deny a perfectly valid
bug. that happens there is nothing we can do.

If you take "the power" to mean "the power to make the developer do whatever
you want", then of course, you don't have the power. If you take it to mean
"the power to get involved and help improve things", we're nearer the
truth.

Documenting the problem on the Net only helps those with Net access and
does nothing towards closing/solving that bug.

Well, in this particular instance, only those with Net access can get new
themes, so that's moot.

But perhaps I should have been more clear that the two solutions I suggested
in my original post are orthogonal: one is a way to solve the problem
(acknowledged by the developer) for the next version of KDE, whereas the
other is a workaround to mitigate the problem until then.

Regards,
Philip
--
KDE Documentation Team: http://i18n.kde.org/doc
KDE Documentation : http://docs.kde.org


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Account management:
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